{"id":896,"date":"2026-09-20T14:22:20","date_gmt":"2026-09-20T14:22:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/?p=896"},"modified":"2026-09-20T14:22:20","modified_gmt":"2026-09-20T14:22:20","slug":"the-art-of-the-failed-interview-reflections-on-dharma-and-connection","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/?p=896","title":{"rendered":"The Art of the Failed Interview: Reflections on Dharma and Connection"},"content":{"rendered":"

In the long arc of a journalistic career, success is often measured by the clarity of the transcript, the precision of the quotes, and the seamless extraction of information from a subject. Yet, as I look back on decades spent in the service of Tricycle<\/em>, I find that some of my most indelible professional memories are not of the interviews that went according to plan, but of those that collapsed entirely\u2014falling away from the intended agenda to reveal something far more human, and perhaps more profound, than a simple Q&A could ever capture.<\/p>\n

I have had my share of these "failed" encounters, moments where the structured pursuit of an article was derailed by the authentic presence of the person sitting across from me. My first such experience was with the revered Burmese meditation master Sayadaw U Pandita (1921\u20132016). I had arrived with a notebook full of questions, hoping to solicit professional insights into the nuances of working with difficult experiences during meditation. I wanted expert commentary; he wanted to know about me.<\/p>\n

The interview quickly devolved from a professional exchange into a mirror. Whenever I attempted to press him for an analytical answer, he would pivot, gently but firmly, toward the immediate reality of my own practice. "Where do you feel the breath?" he would ask, effectively silencing my prepared inquiry. "When do you sit? Mornings or evenings?" The interrogation continued until I finally realized the futility of my agenda. I switched off the recording device, tucked away my notebook, and settled into the only role that made sense in that moment: the student. It was a lesson in the limitations of intellectualizing the dharma, a reminder that the path is walked, not merely discussed.<\/p>\n

This experience, while frustrating at the time, set a precedent for how I would come to view my interactions with the great figures of the American Buddhist scene. It taught me that sometimes, the "failure" to extract a quote is actually a success in engaging with the person.<\/p>\n

This was certainly the case with the late Robert A. F. Thurman (1941\u20132026), the formidable Je Tsongkhapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies at Columbia University. Bob was a force of nature, a man whose presence filled any room he entered. He possessed an outsize personality that felt almost magnetic\u2014a combination of a booming, authoritative voice, a distinctive, lumbering gait, and a sharp, inquisitive mind that seemed to be processing a dozen ideas at once.<\/p>\n

To those who knew him, Bob was unmistakable. There was his signature style, and of course, the glass eye that he wore with a kind of waggish charm, refusing to let it hide what was missing or diminish his engagement with the world. He was a man hungry for ideas, for conversation, and for the vibrant, messy business of meeting new people. He shattered the prevailing, often overly sanitized stereotypes about Buddhist spirituality. He was unabashedly social, deeply involved in the world, and he fundamentally broadened our collective vision of what bodhisattva activity could look like in the modern age.<\/p>\n

Since his passing at his home in Woodstock, New York, this past June, there has been a wealth of writing reflecting on his life and legacy. As noted in the obituary by contributing editor Joan Duncan Oliver, Bob\u2019s contribution to the American dharma scene was monumental. I saw evidence of this influence throughout my own career at Tricycle<\/em>. Starting in the 1990s, when I would sit across from young job applicants, I made it a habit to ask how they had first developed an interest in Buddhism. The answer was almost always the same: "I learned about Buddhism from Professor Thurman."<\/p>\n

They called him "Buddha Bob" or "Tenzin Bob," terms of endearment that spoke to the accessibility he brought to ancient, complex traditions. He was a bridge between the ivory tower of academia and the lived experience of the practitioner. Many of those young applicants had been sent directly to our doors by Bob himself, a testament to his role as a mentor who not only taught the dharma but actively encouraged his students to live it and share it.<\/p>\n

\"No<\/figure>\n

In the early 2000s, I traveled to Bob\u2019s home near Columbia University, determined to conduct a proper, professional interview about his book, The Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti: A Mahayana Scripture<\/em>. I had been deeply moved by his interpretation of the Vimalakirti Sutra\u2014a text that centers on the figure of an enlightened layman\u2014and I admired his accessible writing style and the helpful glossaries he created to make such dense material come alive for an English-speaking audience.<\/p>\n

I arrived with specific questions about the sutra, ready to delve into the text\u2019s historical and spiritual significance. Bob, however, had other plans. He barely mentioned the book at all. Instead, he steered the conversation toward the pressing realities of the day: politics, the cycle of endless wars, the intricacies of the Bush dynasty, and the wider implications of Tibetan teachings on compassion in a fractured world. When I tried to steer him back to the Vimalakirti, he would offer a quick acknowledgment before embarking on a passionate, intellectual detour.<\/p>\n

I did my best to guide him back to the script, but I was no match for his enthusiasm. Much like my experience with Sayadaw U Pandita, I eventually gave up. But I was not for a moment bored. I had been taken on a conversational joy ride, a sprawling exploration of philosophy, ethics, and current events that only ended when his wife, Nena, interrupted us to remind Bob of a pressing commitment.<\/p>\n

I left his home that day without the interview I had promised my editors, and yet, I felt no regrets. The irony is that the interview is all the more memorable precisely for its failure. It revealed the man behind the scholar\u2014a person who saw the dharma not as a static text to be analyzed, but as a living, breathing framework for navigating the chaos of modern life.<\/p>\n

The contrast between these two "failed" interviews is striking. Sayadaw U Pandita was an inward-looking force, a teacher who brought me back to the foundational silence of my own practice. Bob Thurman was an outward-looking force, a teacher whose magnificent, sprawling voyages dropped me off at wonderful and unexpected places, expanding my horizon rather than narrowing it down to the breath.<\/p>\n

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of hosting Bob on a Zoom call. It was a digital reunion of sorts. More than the specific content of his words, I recall the broad smile, the mischievous laugh, and the sheer delight he took in discussing the dharma. He still possessed that same vibrant energy, and even his full head of hair seemed to defy the passage of time. During that call, I mentioned the interview from decades before, the one where he completely derailed my plan to discuss Vimalakirti. He laughed and suggested that we would simply have to revisit the sutra sometime in the future.<\/p>\n

We never did get that chance. But in reflecting on these moments, I realize that the "failure" to record a tidy transcript was, in many ways, the point. These encounters were not meant to be captured in a static format; they were meant to be experienced. Whether it was the silent, internal shift prompted by a meditation master or the intellectual, expansive fire ignited by a scholar-activist, these moments remind me that the most important parts of the dharma often happen in the gaps between our plans, in the detours we didn\u2019t intend to take, and in the human connections that simply refuse to be categorized.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In the long arc of a journalistic career, success is often measured by the clarity of the transcript, the precision of the quotes, and the seamless extraction of information from a subject. Yet, as I look back on decades spent in the service of Tricycle, I find that some of my most indelible professional memories […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":895,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[402],"tags":[405,1165,1164,403,1161,1162,406,1163,404],"class_list":["post-896","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-eastern-philosophy-and-spirituality","tag-buddhism","tag-connection","tag-dharma","tag-eastern-philosophy","tag-failed","tag-interview","tag-mindfulness","tag-reflections","tag-spirituality"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/896","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=896"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/896\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/895"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=896"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=896"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/orientalplaces.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=896"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}